Since thin-set mortar works over almost any substrate, the Kerdi system can be used over drywall, plywood, or the various cement boards mentioned above. Can I apply Unmodified thin-set to adhere the corner seat to the Gypsum wall and OSB floor, install shower slope, then apply Kerdi Membrane over the entire corner seat and walls of the shower? What Does It Mean When A Guy Spreads His Legs In Front Of You? I think cx is right. Thanks again Robert. The thickness of the tile assembly is minimized by using Ditra, they like to see modified when you are attaching to any sort of wood product and unmodified pretty much everywhere else, Jason, let's keep all questions related to this project on this thread so that questions and answers aren't duplicated, and the history is in one place. Sure, grey might be "OK," but why chance it for less than 20 bucks? There is no problem applying Kerdi Membrane over your plaster walls. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. Schluter-KERDI is a pliable sheet-applied waterproofing membrane and vapor-retarder designed for the direct application of tile. Hey Jim, one last question. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. IOW, you have to be fast. No need to learn the hard way [emoji4]. For acid-resistant coverings, use an epoxy adhesive to set and grout the tile. The material is equally suitable for creating level substrates in floor renovation projects e.g. A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. Thanks Kevin. I will be using Ditraset to install the kerdi on the walls and to set the tiles. DITRA-XL is 5/16 (7 mm)-thick and allows for ceramic tile application over single layer plywood/OSB subfloors on joists spaced at 24 (610 mm) o.c. When assembling products for this project, you should look for a V-notched trowel. Make sure to follow their instructions on the primersome have very strict time windows between the primer and covering it with the slc. They can easily be cut to size with a utility knife, or may be extended with dry-pack mortar. You can also use Schluter-KERDI, a membrane made of polyethylene. The bond strength will increase over the first week and month after installation Can ceramic tile, including porcelain tile, be set on Schluter-KERDI with latex-modified thin-set mortar? Can you use green board for shower walls? KERDI-BOARD can be installed both vertically and horizontally using the screws and washers in our hardware assortment. DITRA has a thickness of 1/8. The latter is ideal for structural and load-bearing applications such as floors. I would prefer to seal the KBRS corner seat with Kerdi. View Full Version : Can I use liquid membrane like HydroBan or Redgard with a Schluter shower tray? or OSB Joists, I-joists, or trusses Ceramic or porcelain tile Unmodified thin-set mortar DITRA-HEAT or DITRA-HEAT-TB uncoupling membrane and heating cables Latex p.c. With the KERDI-SHOWER-TT thin shower tray on a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the bathroom floor by installing either a 5/8" or 3/4" plywood/OSB panel on top of the wood subfloor along with DITRA or another Schluter-Systems uncoupling membrane. KERDI has been evaluated according to the Standard Method for the Testing and Evaluation of Volatile Organic Chemical Emissions from Indoor Sources Using Environmental Chambers, Version 1.1 for California Specification 01350 and found to comply with the VOC requirements. Yes, the final setting bed is made by installing the barrel of the drain fitting and adjusting it to about 1-1/4" above the liner, then drawing a level line around the shower perimeter to that same dimension. Thats because the thinset, once applied, cures very quickly. KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-wovenpolypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. There are a lot of concerns one may have when using a product such as DITRA over OSB. Ensure the pieces are big enough to fit the entire OSB subfloor. The Kerdi foam shower tray needs to be applied with thin set under it ? over expansion joints or construction joints. Bring all of these elements together using the profiles and fasteners specifically designed for KERDI-BOARD assemblies. As far as bonding goes, no sweat. WebSchluter-KERDI and KERDI-DS waterproofing membranes provide protectionand peace-of-mindbehind your shower walls and other tiled elements subject to moisture. Ideally I would like a fold down slatted wood seat mounted on the wall. I never had done drypack before and it was pretty simple to do. Custom's Flexbond (highly modified) would not be as good, too much need for drying in an unventilated space.Bill. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing ceramic and stone tile over Schluter-KERDI? 3. Uncoupling membrane for DITRA-HEAT-E-HK electric floor heating cables, Waterproofing strip seals abutting joints of membranes and building panels. Henry makes one called liquid backerboard that is designed to get to a feather edge over OSB or ply (I'm sure on ply, double-check over OSB). Something which would consume a lot of time and money. With a tray, it has to be perfectly flat and level. Building mud screeds along that line is fairly simple, just pile a row of mud against the wall so it covers the line by about an inch, then using a straight board, press the mud down until you can just see the line again. :). The Laticrete 255 KERDI-BOARD building panels are quick and easy to install and allow you to achieve substrates that are flat, level, plumb, and square. About 1/4" off with a 6 ft. Level. For floor/wall connections, use KERDI-BAND. joist spacing. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile. On the surface, OSB may look fragile. Makes things a lot easier. 5 When to use Kerdi band after mortar installation? I knew better than to start another thread! If you can tile a shower you can do a mud bed. For complete installation guidelines and warranty criteria for KERDI in showers, steam showers, and bathtub surrounds or KERDI-DS in steam rooms , please download the Schluter- Systems Shower System Installation Handbook and view the installation videos available below. Kerdi fix does not stick to thin-set FYI. Besides Schluters recommendation, several experts have used DITRA as an uncoupling membrane for tile installation over OSB. Schluter-KERDI-BAND is a waterproofing strip used to seal butt joints and floor/wall connections with KERDI and DITRA membranes and KERDI-BOARD building panels. Possibly. Do I need an uncoupling membrane on plywood? I understand that to be a requirement for the foam trays. You can use one to work the DITRA into the thinset. 8. Schluter -DITRA and DITRA-XL are specifically designed for ceramic and stone tile installations. Use your rubber mallet to help things along. CEMENT based only !!!!! Quick update to everyone that has been of help to me. You can do it either way. Schluter recommends different sizes. Our local menards has Tec, but not sure they carry that. The use of really cold water might give you an extra minute or two. Yes,Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. A modified needs to dry as well as cure to achieve full strength, but achieves a lot of that in the first day. DITRA-HEAT-DUO features an integrated bonding fleece that provides sound control, as well as a thermal break. Waterproofing strip: Schluter-KERDI-BAND, 5. Invictus, by Henley. In general, if the subfloor for tiling is made up of plywood, you don't have to use a primer. Ouch. Thinset to just outside those coverage marks with the flat side of the trowel, then come back and give it a quick comb with the notched side of the trowel. I'll get some pics up over the weekend (batterys dead in camera).. You've got 1/4" Hardi down, but no tile yet, correct? 4. Is there a likelihood this would change over time (i.e. Thinset is the wet base that you first trowel on the plywood to make the tile stick. And I have been elected to be the one. WebMembranes Waterproofing (KERDI) Uncoupling (DITRA) Removable Fleece Sound Control Exterior Systems Paver Support System Balcony Profiles Building Panels KERDI Use unmodified thin set to vBulletin v3.7.4, Copyright 2000-2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Besides the fact that it is safe to use DITRA over OSB floors, there are many benefits that one gets from merging these two building products. 7. Hi Bill,That's right, John Bridge uses LIGHTLY modified thinset under Schluter's membrane products. DITRA will also support load distribution. The thickness of the tile assembly is minimized by using Ditra, Let me ask you thisif i use just the four longest (and therefore the highest) quick pitch sticks that go out to the cornersthey could still serve as a guide right?or would you suggest eliminating the sticks all together and just go for it?.How long will this dry pack stay workable? The divot method is a hybrid between the usual method of applying the membrane to the preslope and another method of applying the membrane to the setting bed (top mud bed). You don't want a ridge there. In a perfect job, it will waterproof. I need to run to lowes today anyways. The Kerdi seems very well adhered to the plywood. Once you get your pics to about 600 pixels high by 400 wide, they'll upload in a snap. The seam in the middle I would think could be whichever you prefer. Danny, this the same master bath you have an earlier thread about? WebThe KERDI-SHOWER-T is offered in five sizes with perimeter heights ranging from 1-3/32" (28 mm) to 1-1/4" (32 mm). Cut a section of Kerdi off the roll and dry fit it on the hardie. It can still feel the effects of excess moisture exposure. Multifunctional building panels: Schluter-KERDI-BOARD, 2. Furthermore, the maximum on-center spacing for the screws and washers is 12 inches. We are going with a grey grout, either delorean gray or light pewter. Was in a similar situation as you and ended up with TEC uncoupling from Lowes for about $15/bag. IMPORTANT: Stud spacing exceeding 16" requires the placement of additional studs. For showers and bathtub surrounds, KERDI must be carried to the height of the showerhead at minimum What size notched trowel should I use to install Schluter-KERDI? Send us an email: , construction-most-common-waterproofing-mistakes, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp, SchluterKERDI was evaluated by ICC-ES - ESR-2467, Schluter-DITRA was evaluated by ICC-ES - ESR-2467, Schluter-KERDI is listed by ICC-ES - PMG-1204, Schluter-KERDI-DS is listed by ICC-ES - PMG-1204, Schluter-KERDI-DRAIN is listed by ICC-ES - PMG-1204, Schluter Systems holds a Los Angeles Research Report (LARR) for Kerdi - File M-100022, Schluter Systems holds a Los Angeles Research Report (LARR) for Kerdi-Drain - File M-100023, Sheet-appliedpolyethylene waterproofing membrane and vapor retarder, Eliminates water damage which can lead to mold and mildew, Features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropyleneon both sides, Features an anchoring fleece on both sides to anchor the membrane in thin-set mortar, Ideal for waterproofing in conjunction with tiled surfaces on walls and floors, KERDI is 8-mil-thick and guarantees uniform thickness, The 6 7 (2-meter) wide roll covers wall area from floor to standard shower head height for fewer seams and a faster installation. Danny if youre worried about sweating the fittings. look into pex and compression rings if codes permit in your local. I'm of the opinion now that I'll use what's best for the stick with the subfloor. Either will work to anchor the foam pan. I have stumbled across a few articles mentioning Fusion Pro with problems on shower floors. DITRA has a nominal 1/8" (3 mm)-thickness which minimizes tile assembly thickness. It's important to note that latex-modified thinset can still be used between the membrane and the subfloor because it is not impervious. Install KERDI-SEAL-PS pipe seals at showerhead, body sprays, etc. So what does all this mean? View Full Version : kerdi foam shower tray over OSB. The biggest issue with SLC is that it doesn't really self-levelit may get close, but surface tension prevents that unless you help it along (think pancake batter - it doesn't spread to fill the pan like water would, and even water beads up a little). Send us an email: . The system can also be customized with floor heating cables to create a warm, luxurious tile floor. Once the KERDI membrane, including seams, corners and protrusions have been completely bonded and, therefore, waterproofed, the assembly is ready to be tiled. Do I need to prime plywood before tiling? Now that you know DITRA can be used over OSB, its time to learn how to do it. Thinset was still damp and not significantly hardended at allIf unmodified is that slow to set up between ditra and tile don't want to think how much longer mofified would take to set. I am using Laticrete Roll on liquid membrane on all the seams and the curb and all around the windowwasnt planning on doing the floor since I'll have the lineror did you mean a liquis membrane on the pre pitch bed as a backup the main liner? No, the KERDI membrane does not have a front/back to it. Step 5 Install the DITRA Over the Thinset. Acrylic is one of the most durable materials used in the shower construction industry, and for good reason. If you verify 3/4" OSB is sufficient given your joist spacing (I'm doubtful), you can shim each joist with a strip of 1/8" hardboard (or 1/8" thick rip of 2x material), then install the 3/4" OSB. I look at ceramic tile as a lifetime-of the house-product, so I use the best material for the job.I prefer to use cement board as the substrate with the Kerdi on top. 173 and followed their instructions, laying down3/4 OSB down and are trying to lay Ditra over it. Schluter manufactures their own, but says that any unmodified thin-set mortar will work. Ditra is 1/8-in thick and is designed for ceramic and stone tile. While cement backer boards are moisture-resistant, they are not waterproof. 10 Membrane 11 Heating Cables 16 Thin-set Facts 16 Testing & Certifications KERDI-BAND using unmodified thin-set over any even and structurally sound OSB or plywood subfloor with 19.2" (488 mm) o.c. Seems like a decent choice when no other is readily available. Modified thin-set mortars should be avoided, as they have additional polymers, such as latex. We are trying to lay slate tile in an entryway. Hello! Latex-modified mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard Why should I use the Schluter-Shower System? Im installing Schluter-KERDI over drywall in my shower. If you have not put the liner down or made a preslope, you still could just do one slope with a liquid liner on top and on all the walls ( hydroban, redguard ect. ) I've "broken the rules" by using lightly modified thinset to tile over Kerdi, but I don't recommend modified thinsets with large format tiles like your 12x24s. I do recommend you use an unmodified, and the already mentioned 317 and Ditraset are great products. I'll recommend Mapei's Kerabond as a very good unmodified thinset too. Since my walls are still open the sweating should be tolerable.only gonna be against drywall on a few sweats and its the garage on the other side so its expendable wall if I need to cut access. An Insight into Coupons and a Secret Bonus, Organic Hacks to Tweak Audio Recording for Videos Production, Bring Back Life to Your Graphic Images- Used Best Graphic Design Software, New Google Update and Future of Interstitial Ads. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. Use Thinset With a Higher Latex Content Thinset is the wet base that you first trowel on the plywood to make the tile stick. and KERDI-SEAL-MV at the mixing valve. Thus, additional measures must be taken to protect wall cavities from water and vapor penetration. I will look into it. On the clean OSB floor, measure and cut the DITRA, ensuring that it fits perfectly. In general, modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. Calculate all your membrane requirements for your project. Without a waterproof membrane like Kerdi, water and moisture can seep through grout, tile and other materials and end up damaging wood studs and subfloor. Then hang the sheet. Schluter- KERDI-DS is a bonded waterproofing membrane and vapor retarder with very low water vapor permeance for use in continuous-use steam rooms and similar applications. I would just prime with a latrex bonding agent, let it dry 'till tacky and go for it. This is very important for OSB boards that are used as floors. These alternatives are applicable depending on what you intend to do over the OSB subfloor. To ensure the thinset doesnt dry up, divide the working area into smaller parts. Does Schluter-KERDI waterproofing membrane have a front/back to it? Go with a masonry bench or look into the better bench or nobel bench. Schlter-KERDI-BOARD is simply cut to size with a utility knife. Higher latex content is essential for bonding to plywood. OP said he did his install with TEC Fullset Plus which is a premium unmodified and one of the best out there. A-holes. Its a water-resistant membrane used for tiles and paver coverings. It can be used in areas not subject to direct water exposure (tub/shower surround), and areas of noncontinuous high humidity (bathrooms). Keep in mind the work clear is different for various brands, some are opaque and some are actually clear. WebWith the KERDI-SHOWER-TT thin shower tray on a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the bathroom floor by installing either a 5/8" or 3/4" plywood/OSB panel on top of the A couple of questions: What color grout are you planning to use? Yes. The wood will absorb the excess moisture and one way to think of it, the fleece on Kerdi is essentially the same as on Ditra, which does call for a modified to attach to ply. J. Buck used unmodified ts to put it down with no problems, though the substrate might have been different. Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. DITRA performs all these functions while still providing adequate support/load distribution for the tile covering. Used Ditra just recently. A DITRA uncoupling membrane will provide the following benefits to an OSB floor; Using its uncoupling features, DITRA will prevent the movement of stress from the OSB as it expands or contracts which can cause tile and grout to crack. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page. Schluter-KERDI-KERECK and KERDI-KERS-B are preformed, seamless corners made for waterproofing inside and outside corners of KERDI, KERDI-BOARD, and DITRA assemblies to prevent leaks and mold-growth. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. OSB, known as Oriented Strand Board, is made of several layers of wood strands bonded using adhesives. It shouldnt be too thin or too thick. "Did the article get this detail grotesquely wrong?". Once the entire membranewith seams, corners, and connectionshas been completely bonded, and therefore waterproofed, the covering may be applied. Likewise take a grinder to any high spots. Over a concrete subfloor use a bonded mortar bed of appropriate thickness to build up the rest of the bathroom floor. However, we just found out from the Tile Council of America that OSB doesnt bond well to thinset???? Why is it so easy to peel it off the wall today? Cover the joints with KERDI-FLEX. Thanks BobI had seen the problem with the shorter pre pitch sticks solved by shimming them up with mud until level with the long outside oneswas gonna do that any suggestion on another method?maybe I'll shim em up with extra lath now that I know need that in there? Schluter-KERDI is a pliable, sheet-applied, bonded waterproof membrane and vapor retarder with limited crack-bridging capabilities. The plan is to redguard over all of it. Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine. With the KERDI-SHOWER-TT thin shower tray on a wood subfloor, you can build up the rest of the bathroom floor by installing either a 5/8" or 3/4" plywood/OSB panel on top of the wood subfloor along with DITRA or another Schluter-Systems uncoupling membrane. Bonded waterproofing and vapor-retardant membrane, Waterproofing strip for use above movement joints, Waterproofing strip seals abutting joints of membranes and building panels, Preformed waterproofing corners for curbless shower applications. Contact us: 888-472-4588 Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. Then fill in the rest and slope it to the drain. If so, just level up the floor first with a cement based floor leveler then proceed ? Kerdi Trouble - Testing it, have concerns. Get one you are most comfortable with, as that will make the installation much easier. Not so good side to side. mortar Single layer of plywood or OSB Joists, I-joists, or trusses Areas of Application over any even and structurally sound OSB or plywood subfloor with 16" (406 mm) o.c. Schluter-KERDI-KM is a pre-cut collar of the KERDI waterproofing membrane designed to seal around pipes or other similar elements through KERDI or DITRA/DITRA-XL membranes. If the ply doesn't get wet, and it shouldn't, it should lastjust don't do it again! Although some substrates absolutely require uncoupling membranes, they can be installed on a range of surfaces, including cement mortar, backerboard, OSB, and plywood. How Do I Get Rid Of Creeping Charlie And Creeping Jenny. If you intend to install another type of floor, such as hardwood, there is no need for DITRA. How to Market Your Business with Webinars? The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. That would be ideal for me right now. Its a lot easier to do it right the first time and cheaper also. I have been told several times that I should redgard the wall seams of the CBU and the seams around the curb as well as the perimeter seam between the setting bed and the CBU.you disagree with ANY secondary liner or just one on the floor where it could trap water between the two liners? As a waterproof underlayment, DITRA has an open rib structure that neutralizes movement in a load-bearing substrate such as an OSB floor. Waterproofing strip: Schluter-KERDI-BAND, 6. 2. The KERDI-BOARD will protect the ceiling from both water and vapor penetration. Sorry about that. Tiles can be installed directly on KERDI using the thin-bed method. You'll be surprised how quickly the stuff solidifies! Yes. That can be mitigated by using DITRAs waterproofing capabilities. The nominal 5/16 (8mm) thickness minimizes tile assembly thickness. Due to its thin perimeter height, the KERDI-SHOWER-TT is an ideal choice. We are very concerned about any moisture at all getting into the OSB. Tile has been successfully installed for thousands of years by incorporating an uncoupling layer, or forgiving shear interface, within the tile assembly. Follow the Wood Underlayment installation guidelines as found in the Schluter-DITRA or Schluter-DITRA-HEAT Installation Handbooks for fastening guidelines. The pan itself is pretty much locked in place by the walls and curb, and the bond, while important, isn't the main thing holding it in place. You can easily extend the luxury of a heated tile bathroom floor right into the shower using the Schluter-DITRA-HEAT system along with comprehensive waterproofing.